Children's and Parents'Behavior in OTB

Two incidents recently. Situation -- OTB tournament in which kids and adults were mixed in lower sections. First, when playing, an adult swore (mildly) after hanging a piece. The kid left the board and shortly returned. Then the TD appeared and watched the game for nearly 10 minutes. Afterwards, the adult player was informed that the kid had gone to his parent and reported the swear word. The parent complained to the TD that the adult was using "bad" language in the presence of a child and that children should not be exposed to such behavior. Second, a very, very young girl was playing. She could not record her moves nor fill in her score sheet -- so her mother appeared and was doing it for her. The adult player opined that if a player was unable to write her own name, she shouldn't be playing with adults. The mother reported him to the TD as being offensive to her daughter. In both cases, the TD stated that kids should be allowed different behavior because they are kids.

I was not the adult in either case.

However, I have experienced kids who drum on the table, chat with other kids who are wandering around, kick the table repeatedly, hum, and so on. None of it is malicious, but it is constantly distracting. I have experienced parents who wander in and observe their kid playing and who get their kid settled in before a match (checking on water, checking on the board setup and the scoresheet setup, giving pep talks) -- in spite of rules that say parents are not allowed in the playing area

So, why are kids playing with adults while they are still acting like kids? Why are parents tolerated to closely monitor their kids before and during play? Scholastic sections and contests are available withing their rating range, but they seem to need to get in with the adults.

I agree that, as kids age and they move up in rating and sections, their behavior approximates a mannered adult. I'm a poor player who just enjoys chess, so I see a number of kids. In my neck of the woods it seems that the emphasis in our local, small tournaments is upon making them available and welcoming to the kids -- in the two or so lower sections. Perhaps the tournament organizers need the entry fees. It seems, at times, that the TDs don't want to deal with parents. Perhaps intimidation, perhaps avoiding a nuisance.

I suppose that the solution is to improve my chess, move up, and avoid the sections with a number of kids.

The arbiter can allow parents in the playing area.

11.2.3 Only with the permission of the arbiter can:
11.2.3.3 a person who is neither a player nor arbiter be allowed access to the playing area.

The mother can assist the daughter in recording moves.

8.1.6 If a player is unable to keep score, an assistant, who must be acceptable to the arbiter, may be provided by the player to record the moves. His/Her clock shall be adjusted by the arbiter in an equitable way. This adjustment of the clock shall not apply to a player with a disability.

https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023

Little kids shouldn't be playing in OTB tournaments. They are unhealthy, unnecessarily stressful, and worst of all a great germ spreading risk. I haven't played a tournament since early 2017. Only play online now. Wasn't enjoyable to spend 10-12 hours on 5-6 games. Most likely these parents are pressuring them to play competitive chess which is ridiculous. Let them enjoy their childhood.

Knowing the rules is always helpful. However, applying the rules -- or only partially applying them is not. In the case of the parents in the playing area, no permission was asked or obtained from the TD -- the parents just walked in. In spite of a clear statement in the tournament description that nobody other than players and officials were allowed in the playing area. It could be that the organizers did not want to offend, confront, or engage at all with the parents.

In the case of the mother recording for her daughter, again no permission was asked or granted. The mom just did it. There was no clock adjustment

It does seem to me that there is a spirit -- written or unwritten -- that, after declaring that kids are the future of chess, kids and their parents are being given free rein to conduct themselves inappropriately during OTB play. In a minority of cases.

OTB tournaments should not require move notation for anyone. All board should have electronic sensors that register piece movements, record them, and automatically change the clock. In reality though in person tournaments should be abolished and all be via touchscreen boards.

Kids don't need that kind of stress in their lives. Chess tournaments are just another unnecessary thing that wears kids out who are already struggling in school, and a great contagion risk. Minimum age to enter any competitive sport should be at least 15.

@7

The arbiter implicitly allowed the parents otherwise he would have thrown them out.
That is his call.

The arbiter implicitly accepted the mother to assist her daughter in recording moves,
otherwise he would have thrown her out and appointed another person to record her moves.
The arbiter implicitly refrained from adjusting the clock.
He can interpret the inability to record moves as a disability.

Maybe another arbiter could have ruled differently.
Personally I would allow the mother and not adjust the clock,
but I would have thrown out parents that have no valid reason to be in the playing area.

@10

We now have 12 year old grandmasters and Kasparov and Kramnik have retired.
Chess is no longer an old man's game.

As long as little kids can behave themselves they can play in "open" tournaments.

All the little kids I've ever seen at tournaments behave themselves perfectly well. It's generally the adults that behave badly .

Why?

I am accompanied by my dad when I play tournaments.

Here's what I do:

My dad helps me find my board, makes sure I have water, and then he leaves.

I, personally, notate, rarely leave the board to spectate, and I think I do a good job not being distracting, because I've never been told much by an opponent.

I don't understand. Do you have any proof they are being pressurized? I like to play otb tournaments, and when I took a break, my parents weren't mad or anything.

Sure, I'll get a bit nervous(I don't wanna bottle my rating), but I'm not being pressurized or stressed to play.

kids can play with adults because age does not matter. the kids I see don't talk with each other but yes some drum tables, kick your legs, etc.

As a tournament director (arbiter) of hundreds of scholastic tournaments over the decades (all in the US) I've found that treating kids with the same calmness, consideration and respect that you give adults generally results in them playing reasonably calmly. Purely scholastic tournaments with many beginning players can be a bit noisy but calm firmness can mitigate that noticeably. Such tournaments often prohibit spectators and that avoids a lot of the difficult problems (such as parents being "absolutely certain" that other parents are signaling moves to their own kids).

Open tournaments with adults and kids have their own difficulties because spectators are often allowed. Fortunately most of the kids have some tournament experience so there is nowhere near the potential disruption of a beginners scholastic tournament and what there is can be address by the arbiters. Some arbiters avoid confrontation (losing control of the room), some enjoy confrontation (causing easily avoidable disruptions), many dislike confrontation but do not shy from it when it is necessary. Also, there are some players who complain about ANY noise or disturbance and anything other than absolute silence is unacceptable (I've heard complaints about how loud a normal press of a clock's button is).

My local chess club has a number tween-agers and single-digit-aged kids playing. The kids are treated with the same respect adults are given and they respond well to that (even returning that respect when they start defeating the adults). Their parents generally sit quietly at the edge of the room or in an adjacent room after they see that their kids are accepted as chessplayers and not being treated like interloping little monsters.

Pace, wander around, fidget, stand while playing. Sounds like a lot of adults I've seen in tournaments over the years.