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The Problem with Chess Speedrunning

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MaetsNori

A few days ago, I watched a YouTube video of Hikaru doing one of his "Botez Gambit" speedruns - where he sacrifices his queen against low-rated players from his own low-rated account, then proceeds to dismantle them, one by one.

One by one, his opponents made blunders - typical of players at their level. And time after time, Hikaru shook his head disappointedly, or rolled his eyes in annoyance at their poor moves.

I found myself shaking my head, too - but not at his opponents.

I don't think speedrunning is positive thing in the chess community. I view it as what it essentially is - experienced, high-rated players beating up on lower-rated players for the fun of it.

Sure, I understand the spectacle. Viewers enjoy seeing their favorite streamer dominate in various, creative ways. Or, they enjoy seeing how players of their own level would get decimated by a Super GM.

But what about the players on the receiving end of these defeats? Losing at chess can already be demoralizing enough, especially for players who are trying hard to improve. When facing someone like Naroditsky or Nakamura (two of the strongest blitz and bullet players in the world), even I (a 2300-rated player) would find my position being torn to shreds. Even my best moves would look pitiful, and would induce eye rolls from my GM opponent. I would feel, after the game, as if all my progress over the years has been for naught.

How must it feel for the 1000-rated players, then, to be crushed so mercilessly by a player who appears to have a similar rating to their own?

Yes, I'm aware that points are refunded after the game. But this doesn't erase the psychological impact of being humiliated, on stream, in front of countless unknown viewers.

I'm a fan of Hikaru, Naroditsky, and others, but I'm not a fan of speedrunning against low-rated players. If you want to sac your queen for memes, or if you want to play 1.g4 / 1...g5 against everything, do it against players at your own level - and try to prove that you can still win.

Otherwise, I consider it just stomping on novices for cheap views. It's sandbagging. Chess bullying.

It's lazy content that's designed to discourage and demoralize novices - the same kind of players that these Super GMs once were, themselves.

Perhaps worst of all: it encourages viewers to make their own speedrun accounts, to do the same thing, just like they've seen their favorite streamer do - creating a snowball effect that can only do more harm than good.

TourDeChess7

I see your point, insert any professional athlete against an amateur/beginner athlete (pitcher versus batter, striker versus goalie) etc., the same mismatched result. Chess.com rules for a second account include no speed runs.

I played a streamer once on chess.com (there is a warning that pops up, you have to agree to it) when the unsolicited game popped up for me to play. Early end game I messed up and my opponent had mate in 1 (kind of hidden). A viewer posted a comment mate in 1 (to my opponent, this was a rated game). My opponent was looking at the board and continuoulsy commenting and missed the move and seeing the illegal comment until about 2-3 moves later. Then he went on a rant about missing an easily won game, lots of profanity (he warns about that in his streaming disclaimer). I ended up winning the game. But if you play a streamer and it's rated, there's nothing you can do about spectators in effect cheating against you.

It was interesting watching the game afterwards, he tried a Scholar's Mate attack against me for a quick win and I defended it with a knight. He went on a full on expletive laden rant about hating the stupidity of that defensive move. happy After all that (I didn't know about any of this during the game, you can't hear it real time) I texted "good game" and he grudgingly agreed. A different experience, it has only happened to me once in 1,984 games.

ice_cream_cake
IronSteam1 写道:

How must it feel for the 1000-rated players, then, to be crushed so mercilessly by a player who appears to have a similar rating to their own?

Yes, I'm aware that points are refunded after the game. But this doesn't erase the psychological impact of being humiliated, on stream, in front of countless unknown viewers.

Yeah agreed. I do like Danya's instructive videos, but there have def been times that me playing cheaters have led me to wonder if I am "really" my rating, and playing a GM is effectively similar. Not to mention that yeah, some people are not....so gracious to their viewers when playing them on-stream. Yes the points are refunded so it's "fair" in that way, but it can be rather unsettling and humiliating to be played like this by a GM, as you noted.

DoYouLikeCurry
Surely once they find out they were playing a titled player it’s not so bad? I personally love losing to titles players - it humbles me and reminds me i have a lot to learn!
LorddVandheer

Opponents also seem to be getting more and more sus against Naroditsky. I remember one fella in particular who could even come up with a credible story after going to Danyas stream.

It wasn't this bad in the previous speedrun.

deleted-user290723

unethical against low rated players.. they are toying with people's self confidence.. making fun of them

pushthatpawnrealgood

I know that in some scientific and psychological experiments, information is intentionally withheld from the subject. Nevertheless, there's a full disclosure at the end. If that or some equivalent were present here, I'd be more at ease about it.

MavTea

I have just come back to chess after quite some break (before streaming boom and even streaming existing in general) and this is for sure the worst thing I've seen when it comes to the game and sharing with others. Like it's been well said already by the original poster, the rating points refunded are literally nothing in comparison to the psychological affect it has on you being dismantled by someone your own rating. If you are a at least an early advanced player, you will understand how people play relative to their ratings, and when someone who is perceived to be on your level beats you like that, it has a big impact.

Elroch

Perhaps they can take the concept to boxing?

SoupSailor72
bobby_max wrote:

Couldn't agree more, OP. CC should cut this nonsense out.

It makes them money.

I agree that it's a bit unethical, but I don't really care. It's entertaining to watch, and I wouldn't mind losing to Hikaru, even if I only found out later who I was playing.

SoupSailor72
Elroch wrote:

Perhaps they can take the concept to boxing?

Left-hand-sac Speedrun Thru Amateur Middleweight as a PRO BOXER - Ep. 22 (HE DIED IN THE CAGE!!!)

EloGateKeeper

Yes I agree completly. There are so many smurf cheating account video on youtube its hilarious. They blow up strangers and beginners for couple of buck of ads revenue its pathetic.

They claim its for educational purpose or whatever but anybody who dont have 2 digit IQ know whats up here.

Fangirl and cheerleaders love watching there idol cheating.

The most hilarious is that this platform allow it and gave title player a cheating badge so they can humiliated and bully the casual chess player saquing there queen hikaru style.

EloGateKeeper

I saw recently Narodistky speed run where He play agains a beginners while using books ! I mean at this point just open stockfish and let him play the game for ya buddy! What a joke.

What an horrible exemple these guys give to people watching these stuff witch are mostly kids I guess.

And ya the snowball effect is real. I just fall on a ''smurf cheating FM falton perrine speed run'' where is ''educational cheating video'' dont get more than 300 views.

JoeyCage

I think it is a pretty scummy thing, it's basically the same as sandbagging, using a fake low rating to beat up on much weaker players and then bragging like it was some immense feat of skill - there's a few masochist idiots out there who feel that getting mauled and punked down by a grand master is somehow an achievement but 99% of people want to play games at their own level.

OutOfCheese

While I'm not the biggest proponent of speedruns this thread here just focuses on the bad things, leaving out any benefits, so I'll play devil's advocate...

-many people would pay a lot of money just to play a super GM once, most people will never play one in their lifetime. Arguably getting this "gift" is worth a lot. Yeah somebody got badly beaten but also got a glimpse on how to dismantle players at their level (if they analyze their game).

-Hikaru speedruns don't stop at low levels, they usually go up to 3000+ rating, so the argument it's only to beat up on low rated players doesn't really hold. The speedrun shows a variety of different playstyles (and types of errors) at different levels and how they can be overcome, so there's a potential educational effect for people who want to take away something from those speedruns.

-due to how rating works (or is supposed to work) you'll lose about half your games anyways, so does it really matter by how much you lost? I feel the importance of that loss and the psychological impact is exaggerated, especially at lower levels people wouldn't be able to tell if their opponent was brilliant or just lucky.

Note that I'm not here to defend speedruns, I just want to make the picture more complete, I agree with some of the negative feedback so there's no point in angrily arguing with me about it wink.png