Some pretty shady account in this thread to be honest! sad.
Indeed, I agree
Recently started playing Mengarini against Sicilian with quite a bit of success. Also trying the wing gambit against the French, which is similar in some ways. Would to see some of your games, and tips, if you use either of these
here's my view of whites options .... I play the sicilian as black and I can tell you what it's like to face these anti-sicilians:
In terms of general strategy - firstly, we should make no bones about the fact that the open lines are the most challenging for black to face. That being said, there's a ton of theory required to play those lines... so playing open lines is more of a long term goal... it's good to start with just some of the open lines. A good place to start is with the modern variations (2... d6). Reason is 2... Nc6 can transpose into two french sicilians, the taimanov and four knights, so you really don't avoid alot of theory by avoiding the french sicilian (2... e6) without also avoiding the old sicilian (2... Nc6).
Also, in almost all cases if you're going to play an offbeat anti-sicilian line the move-3 version of it is better than the move-2 version. For example, b3 does best after black has played e6, which doesn't blunt the b2 diagonal. Likewise black can respond to the move-2 wing gambit with d5 immediately, but by waiting one move you give black the chance to commit to d6 first. The deferred wing gambits are also performing very well against 2... Nc6. So by waiting a move you're able to play anti-sicilians in a more targetted and effective way, or at the very least allow black to commit. Likewise the McDonnell attack is just an inferior version of the Grand Prix, since you will end up playing Nc3 regardless, but by playing f4 on move 2 you allow black to always respond with e6/d5, or just d5 immediately. The Grand prix does extremely well against d6, you'd rather give black the opportunity to commit to d6. And then you can also wisely choose not to play the grand prix if black plays 2... e6.
The mengarini (2... a3) - it's a risky line, you can get good positions but you can also get completely crushed, you're really playing hope chess with this one. If black just exercises caution during initial development he's fine and white doesn't have any serious pressure in the resulting middlegame. I haven't had any problems facing this... it's also being popularized by streamers so people are responding to it more carefully these days. Most people will mention this now in a conversation on anti-sicilians. I'd go with something else
The closed sicilian is probably the most serious and viable anti-sicilian. However, one illusion alot of people have is that they're throwing off black tremendously by playing this. I assure you that black sees tons of anti-sicilians at club level, more than he actually sees the open lines .The closed sicilian is not surprising, that's really not the value of it. Its value is it's a viable set of lines that don't require as much theory from white as the open lines. The closed can also be a very good way of incorporating specific open sicilians of your choosing. i.e. the closed tends to struggle against 2... e6, I usually recommend people play the chameleon, and if 3... Nc6 transpose into the taimanov / four knights sicilian. So closed is a good way to learn.
A note on the smith morra - this is a very crap line, it is probably the easiest line in the entire sicilian to deal with for black. It isn't surprising at all, because it's a move 2 line that almost always leads to the same setup... black runs into it in about 7% of his sicilian games at club level. The c file / c3 diagonal isn't even useful for white, infact the c file is more useful for black typically (white liquidated the pawn to open that up but it's not a useful tempo), taking back with the knight is actually not much of a tempo gain (for comparison, Nxd4 in the open lines is also a developing move)... the kingside castle actually slows whites development. Do not play the smith morra. Unless you're playing the morphy gambit and transposing to the open lines.
The anti-sicilians I like are:
vs. 2... e6 - I like b3 here, the westerenin attack. It's significantly better after e6 has been played, it has good pressure early and is very offbeat. You also aren't risking anything, the engine likes it just as much as the closed sicilian in this case... it's completely solid.
In general I like the idea of playing an anti-sicilian against the french sicilian, because these sicilians are alot less common to face... therefor you're equalizing your experience in the line with that of the opponent by playing some anti-sicilian here.
vs. 2... Nc6 - here I like the deferred wing gambit. It's just scoring extremely well in practice, white gets good initiative and a space advantage in the center, black can go wrong easily.
The rossolimo is a good option here too, but just personal preference I don't find it fun to play the grindy pawn structures that result from that, but still rossolimo is probably the most objectively viable anti-sicilian.
Another line worth mentioning here, which shouldn't be underestimated, is the anti-sveshnikov (3. Nc3). This avoids the lowenthall / sveshnikov, in return you have to play a somewhat boring position after 3... e5 but it's objectively on par with the sveshnikov. Good way to introduce just certain open lines - the taimanov and the four knights - while not having to face the sveshnikov / lowenthall.
vs. 2... d6 - here I just recommend starting with the open lines. The move 2... d6 performs best of any of blacks 2nd moves against anti-sicilians. The moscow is tons of theory and it's alot weaker than the rossolimo, I don't think it's worth the effort. The delayed alapin is a one-trick pony, it's very weak beyond the first 3-4 moves, nothing like the actual alapin. The deferred wing gambit, while it's objectively not that bad, is just performing very badly in practice... it's not really clear why but it is. And the delayed bowdler attack is a sad position, slightly better than the regular bowdler attack but that's not saying much. The best you can hope for in the bowdler is to transpose into a sozin-like open position if black mishandles it, but you should have just played the sozin directly at this point. People who don't know how to play the sicilian go for the bowdler attack.
Also, against d6 you have some very strong open lines as white - the richter-rauzer is a dream position for white... it's also not that algorithmic as you go deeper into the lines. The yugoslav attack against the dragon is also excellent, though it is theoretical... and the keres attack against the scheveningen is excellent. Though you will probably never even face the scheveningen, almost noone plays it, so you can just ignore it. So now you really just have to figure out something against the Najdorf, but you have like 10 different options there. So starting here would be my recommendation.
French Wing Gambit. Harder to find the right lines, but it certainly takes the French player out of their comfort zone
Btw I'd never seen this but it looks like an awesome line against the french player.
@Post #56
Bg5 isn’t very good against d6 - Nadjorf.
6. Bg5 use to be the main line, but the Poison Pawn Variation is very good response to it.
6. Be3 ( English Attack) has sort of taken over as Main line vs. Nadjorf.
People still play 6.Bg5, but I don’t think the line is as strong as it use to be.
——————————
However, I think you might also be talking about Classical Variation. I think I remember you saying you play Classical line.
Bg5 is still strong vs. the Classical line.
Is it the main line? I thought Bc4 was more popular vs. Classical due to Bobby Fischer.
Some pretty shady account in this thread to be honest! sad.
Indeed, I agree
Why?
The guy is talking a complete load of nonsense. And why would "shady" players ( presumably he is suggesting foul play ) come on here to talk about an opening? Such players would have "alternative" ways of doing well at the game. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Rather pathetic to make unfounded suggestions about people who just want to talk about an opening and learn about the game.
I will be blocking that paranoid guy
Some pretty shady account in this thread to be honest! sad.
Indeed, I agree
Why?
The guy is talking a complete load of nonsense. And why would "shady" players ( presumably he is suggesting foul play ) come on here to talk about an opening? Such players would have "alternative" ways of doing well at the game. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Rather pathetic to make unfounded suggestions about people who just want to talk about an opening and learn about the game.
I will be blocking that paranoid guy
I thought he was making a joke.
You know the Slim Shady joke?
He is looking for Shady!
——————
It’s like finding Waldo.
Have you ever read the book Finding Waldo as a child?
Remarkable books if you ask me.
This was before people knew about gems, diseases, and/or Covid.
Waldo was such social butterfly.
Mass Group-age!
Its a real shame you blocked the paranoid guy!
We could of asked him what his stance is on the controversy Limited Edition Finding Waldo Covid Addition Books!
Every person has to stand 6 feet away from each other.
@Post #56
Bg5 isn’t very good against d6 - Nadjorf.
6. Bg5 use to be the main line, but the Poison Pawn Variation is very good response to it.
6. Be3 ( English Attack) has sort of taken over as Main line vs. Nadjorf.
People still play 6.Bg5, but I don’t think the line is as strong as it use to be.
——————————
However, I think you might also be talking about Classical Variation. I think I remember you saying you play Classical line.
Bg5 is still strong vs. the Classical line.
Is it the main line? I thought Bc4 was more popular vs. Classical due to Bobby Fischer.
Talking about the classical. Rauzer is definitely the main line there, no doubt about it. Rauzer is the reason the classical isn't played very much, though some still do play it. Sozin is an alternative but not really on the same level.
Another line I like alot, which I didn't mention, is the anti-sveshnikov. I've been looking at this over the last 2 weeks or so... Kramnik in his course gave me this idea. Basically a transposition to the closed after 2... Nc6 is played -
This line allows you to avoid both the lowenthal and the sveshnikov. However, you do have to play the Nc3 line vs. the accelerated dragon rather than the maroczy bind. But that's not the end of the world. Another great thing it can do is allow you to avoid the french sicilian by playing another sideline after 3... e6.
Overall a very good choice if you're playing something like an anti-sicilian against e6, but playing the open lines against d6... or vice versa. Since you can choose to avoid particular open lines but not others. And of course you avoid the sveshnikov / lowenthall which are the most common lines after 2... Nc6.
The other thing is all the lines are strong, like on par with the open lines in terms of their objective strength. Kramnik in his course talks about how back in the 90s (I think) there was an intense theoretical debate on whether this should be the main line (this was before the dominance of the rossolimo came to fruition). Nowdays it isn't as common, many more players just play the Rossolimo, I think it gets played in like 4% of games on the 3rd move.
Like this line is actually objectively stronger than the Rossolimo according to leela -
This is a ruy lopez type position with a few Ng5 tricks added in... it scores right on par with the Ruy Lopez and the structure is about the same -
If you want to avoid the french sicilian there are some unique options -
The more I think about it... I'm leaning more toward this repertoire -
@Post #51
Have you figured out what line you will play vs. Nadjorf?
Long term I'm planning on learning the Najdorf, at that point I'll have a better feel for what lines really test black. But as of right now... based on both of Anish's / Kramnik's recommendations I'm probably going to play the Adams attack, but rather than e5 > Ne2 I'm going to play e5 > Nb3 and transpose into an english attack with h3 instead of f3. Both these are actually sidelines in the English, and they're scoring very well. So we'll see how it goes... I haven't actually prepared these lines in depth yet, but it looks to be a serious attack comparable to the main lines, but with notable differences that won't be in theory for most people -
Am the real slim shady please stand up please stand up!
I played a good game, among many terrible ones.
I studied that opening.
Guess you spent a few minutes searching my games. Cool.
@Post #56
Bg5 isn’t very good against d6 - Nadjorf.
6. Bg5 use to be the main line, but the Poison Pawn Variation is very good response to it.
6. Be3 ( English Attack) has sort of taken over as Main line vs. Nadjorf.
People still play 6.Bg5, but I don’t think the line is as strong as it use to be.
6.Bg5 is still a major headache for Black, especially if he opts for the Poisoned Pawn.
Computers evaluate the resulting positions as equal, but this is totally irrelevant for practical play: They are very sharp and random, and Black needs to play with the outmost precision for many, many moves to stay alive. And this is the reason lines like 6.Bg5 Nbd7, or 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Nbd7 8.Qe2 Qc7 9.0-0-0 b5 are MUCH safer choices.
Even if Black is not your everyday patzer, but a big Najdorf expert like MVL, he may well fall into a minor prepared line and lose the thread.
Triple case study against the same opponent:
On the other hand, 6.Be3 has lost much of his appeal due to the positional counter 6...e5 7.Nb3 Be6 8.Qd2 Nbd7 9.f3 h5!, or even 9...Be7 10.0-0-0 h5!
Still, feel free to come to your own conclusions. If they are in contrast with Reality, then it's primarily bad for Reality in person.
Oh, Silly Maze!
I’m not talking about safe options!
I am talking about Most Theoretical, Most Chaotic, Most Sharpest, Most Precise, and Most Deadly Lines in all of Chess!
I am not running from theory. I am in the thick of it.
Image a man running towards their enemy with Axe like Barbarian screaming at the top of their lung do their worst!
That is the attitude and mind set I am talking about when playing Nadjorf!
We play for honor and glory!
We will play Qb6 and most of white players will chicken out and play Nb3 to avoid Poison Pawn line.
As far as I’m concerned Faby & MVL are heroes!
MVL had guts to play Poison Pawn
Faby had coconuts to play the accepted line!
They battle with true honor and on that day Faby was winner, but it may not always be case!
Yeah, I see issues with the OP line.
I was trying to think of other lines the OP could do to help give himself a chance for more favorable situation, but I can’t seem to find solution.
Would it be far fetched if the OP delayed the move a3 by a move?
Yeah, I saw a few issues with lines Ibrust was showing as well.
Its kind of odd, but at same time Ibrust might have plan their I’m not considering.
Yeah, I saw a few issues with lines Ibrust was showing as well.
Its kind of odd, but at same time Ibrust might have plan their I’m not considering.
post an example of a problem and we can look into it further, I mostly just scanned through these lines... but general impressions were black needs to play pretty precisely, especially as you go deeper, to avoid big swings in favor of white... often times there's just 1 decent move. And the position is different enough based on a few odd moves to where I suspect that won't happen. English Attack I do think is the best objective try but black is actually scoring well there by comparison, probably because it's just so theoretical. And black is reaching the Najdorf like 35% of their games probably. So I really don't want to just play your typical English Attack.
They all usually hover arounf 3k in puzzle and hit over 40 in 5 min but hey... if ya say ya legit it most be true.
3K rating in puzzles means nothing. Puzzles are CUMULATIVE, so you will just get higher and higher if you spend more time on them- you dont have to beat anyone.
Puzzle Rush, not sure how much you have been researching the connection between that and actually doing well in real games, but I am pretty sure it isn't that important. I gave it a quick go earlier just to see what you were talking about and it is series of puzzles which are all out of context moments from different games, and also timed