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Why do you consider Bobby Fischer overrated?

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capnrob97

I have posted before, some strong chess players believe they got spanked by Fischer in online chess, way before chess engines were strong enough to have someone fake it.

Souvik13

He is undoubtedly one of the most overrated players ever. All he did was reign(and reign supremely) for 3-4 years(70-72) and became World Champion. Then he saw Karpov and realized he could easily be overthrown as the World champion, made excuses to FIDE and fled the battle to protect his title.

If we are to consider the peak 3 years only of all the World Champions, I am not sure he would even be in top 5. He is like a one match wonder in any sports, somehow made a World record at debut, knew he wouldn't be able to carry on his performance, made excuse and fled.

Comparing him to likes of Kasparov, Karpov, Kramnik, Anand or even Polgar is an insult to them. At least they had the guts to keep fighting for their titles for years, in victory or in loss.

He was undoubtedly a brilliant chess player but 'best ever'? Please, maybe he was 'best' in the time span of 70-72, but not a 'best ever' by a long shot.

dannyhume

While I agree with Souvik13's assessment about the cowardice of not fighting for years in win or loss, the truth is Fischer throughly dominated the post-Capa/Alekhine generations of Botvinnik-through-Spassky very easily in a manner so few have done (Morphy, maybe Steinitz when Morphy wasn't playing, Capa for a while, ???). This group includes the two prior champions Petrosian and Spassky, Kortchnoi (who nearly beat Karpov in a championship match), Smyslov who got to the final 4 in 1983 at the age of 62 (!!!), and Tal whom he never lost to again after age 16.  As much as I hate his baby attitude and racist hateful comments, in terms of chess, even if he isn't definitively the greatest ever, he has to be in the discussion and on everyone's short list given his thorough domination of his contemporaries.  Certainly, Kasparov deserves to be on that list as well. 

dude667

I sort of find it difficult to imagine how a player who managed single-handedly to wrest the title from the Soviets and more than held his own against players of the calibre of  Tal,Petrosian,Spassky,Smyslov,Stein,Geller,Polugayevsky,Keres,Korchnoi,Taimanov,etc.,could possibly be considered overrated.Especially if you take into account how he destroyed Larsen,Taimanov and Petrosian.So,no,Fischer can only be underrated,not overrated.

LarrattGHP9

Souvik13

He is undoubtedly one of the most overrated players ever. All he did was reign(and reign supremely) for 3-4 years(70-72) and became World Champion. Then he saw Karpov and realized he could easily be overthrown as the World champion, made excuses to FIDE and fled the battle to protect his title.

If we are to consider the peak 3 years only of all the World Champions, I am not sure he would even be in top 5. He is like a one match wonder in any sports, somehow made a World record at debut, knew he wouldn't be able to carry on his performance, made excuse and fled.

Comparing him to likes of Kasparov, Karpov, Kramnik, Anand or even Polgar is an insult to them. At least they had the guts to keep fighting for their titles for years, in victory or in loss.

He was undoubtedly a brilliant chess player but 'best ever'? Please, maybe he was 'best' in the time span of 70-72, but not a 'best ever' by a long shot.

 

 

Great Post. I totally agree.

LarrattGHP9

While I agree with Souvik13's assessment about the cowardice of not fighting for years in win or loss, the truth is Fischer throughly dominated the post-Capa/Alekhine generations of Botvinnik-through-Spassky very easily in a manner so few have done (Morphy, maybe Steinitz when Morphy wasn't playing, Capa for a while, ???). This group includes the two prior champions Petrosian and Spassky, Kortchnoi (who nearly beat Karpov in a championship match), Smyslov who got to the final 4 in 1983 at the age of 62 (!!!), and Tal whom he never lost to again after age 16.  As much as I hate his baby attitude and racist hateful comments, in terms of chess, even if he isn't definitively the greatest ever, he has to be in the discussion and on everyone's short list given his thorough domination of his contemporaries.  Certainly, Kasparov deserves to be on that list as well.

 

If he was that great he would have dominated Karpov too, but he didnt. I dont really rate Spassky or Petrosian as that great. Remember Karpov's 14-2 record against Spassky, Fischer was undoubtedly all too aware of this, and made every excuse in the book to not make the match happen, that's not a true champion. I don't know what you call that. He's run from 70-72 was awesome but besides that run he really didn't achieve all that much except a super tournament win or 2 and the US champs with an easy field.

 

Did you know Kasparov had a 15-1 record against Korchnoi? I know korchnoi was getting a little older but Victor even beat Caruana around 2007 or so. It shows how strong Kasparov was.

 

And I'm certain Fischer would have found it very difficult against both Kasparov and Karpov. Those 2 would have destroyed the field he dominated too.

ArranVid1
IoftheHungarianTiger wrote:

I think Bobby's overrated, not because he's not an amazing player ... he is. He had an admittedly amazing streak of 19 wins over top-notch grandmasters. But A lot of people talk about him as "the best ever." and seem to believe if he had come out of retirement he would've thrashed Kasparov. I firmly believe that if Fischer had stayed in competition, we would have seen him for what he was ... an amazing player, who, like all other amazing players, has flaws, is a mortal, and will in time be fade against the following generations. It happened to Steinitz, Lasker, Capablanca ... I believe if any one of these men had stopped playing either when they took the title, or just a few years after ... they'd have had a mystique about them too. If Lasker had stopped playing chess in 1905 or right after his big tournament victory of 1914, I suspect there would be the idea that Lasker would have been capable of beating anyone today. Because he played on, and chess theory continued to develop, and he grew older, we recognize such a belief is ridiculous. But when we are faced with players like Fischer and Morphy, who rose to the top and then voluntarily retired, without defending their legacy, we simply assume they would have been successful.

My reply to you: Paul Morphy would definitely have been successful for a long time if he hadn't retired, there is no doubt about it. He was way above everyone else in the world, when he was in his prime.

RXLBlocker

He is not "Greatest of all time"; that's the only problem I can see myself having

ArranVid1
IoftheHungarianTiger wrote:

I think Bobby's overrated, not because he's not an amazing player ... he is. He had an admittedly amazing streak of 19 wins over top-notch grandmasters. But A lot of people talk about him as "the best ever." and seem to believe if he had come out of retirement he would've thrashed Kasparov. I firmly believe that if Fischer had stayed in competition, we would have seen him for what he was ... an amazing player, who, like all other amazing players, has flaws, is a mortal, and will in time be fade against the following generations. It happened to Steinitz, Lasker, Capablanca ... I believe if any one of these men had stopped playing either when they took the title, or just a few years after ... they'd have had a mystique about them too. If Lasker had stopped playing chess in 1905 or right after his big tournament victory of 1914, I suspect there would be the idea that Lasker would have been capable of beating anyone today. Because he played on, and chess theory continued to develop, and he grew older, we recognize such a belief is ridiculous. But when we are faced with players like Fischer and Morphy, who rose to the top and then voluntarily retired, without defending their legacy, we simply assume they would have been successful.

Paul Morphy was a different beast. It could be the case that nobody would ever be able to beat Paul Morphy. If Paul Morphy did not quit and if Paul Morphy continued chess competitively instead of starting a Law firm then maybe Paul Morphy would have continued to dominate. Paul Morphy is better than Wilhelm Steinitz, in my opinion. Both played against Anderssen, Paul Morphy crushed Anderssen but Wilhelm Steinitz struggled against Anderssen...even though both Paul and Wilhelm beat Anderssen.

ArranVid1

Bobby Fischer never truly dominated against Boris Spassky. Bobby was better than Boris, but he struggled a bit against Boris and he never crushed Boris. But if you make prime Boris Spassky play against Anatoly Karpov or Garry Kasparov or Viswanathan Anand or Ding Liren or Magnus Carlsen or Judit Polgar, Boris would get crushed. In fact, Anatoly Karpov has already crushed Boris Spassky several times. I think Judit Polgar defeated Boris Spassky, even though Boris was getting older at that point. Still, I think Judit Polgar has a good chance of defeating prime Boris Spassky.

TurtleAlex

My fav Fischer quotes (long time back I wrote a blog on these less known Fischer details)

"Look, nobody gets that the US and Israel have been slaughtering the Palestinians for years."
"The horrible behaviour that the US is committing all over the world ... This goes to show what goes around comes around, even for the United States."
"I hope the country will be taken over by the military - they'll shut down all the synagogues, arrest all the Jews, and execute hundreds of thousands of Jewish ringleaders."

TurtleAlex
RXLBlocker wrote:

He is not "Greatest of all time"; that's the only problem I can see myself having

Fully agree happy.png

Fr3nchToastCrunch

Fischer's achievements are often overshadowed by the fact that he was a horrible person. This leads people to have an inherent bias against him.

Yes, you can argue that he was perhaps overrated, but his being a despicable human being is not a valid argument. That has nothing to do with his chess skills.

Friend0fFischer

NO!