Was Sammy Reshevsky Underated
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aflfooty
Jul 13, 2023
0
#21
Fine won the U.S. Open seven times to Reshevsky’s three (once tying with each other); but, Reshevsky had a tendency to beat Fine at the U.S. Championship, winning it eight times while Fine always seemed to come up just short. Stats like these make it clear the two had an excellent and well-matched rivalry, with Reshevsky coming out on top with four wins to Fine’s three and 12 games that were drawn.
aflfooty wrote:
He was an eight-time winner of the US Chess Championship, tying him with the great Bobby Fischer for the all-time record.
Although Reshevsky and Fischer had one of the fiercest rivalries in chess history, Fischer greatly respected the older champion, stating in the late 1960s that he thought Reshevsky was the strongest player in the world in the mid-1950s. This was around the time when Reshevsky defeated World Champion Mikhail Botvinnik in their four-game mini-match, which was the top board of the US vs. USSR team match held in Moscow.
Fischer isn't exactly a reliable source and he was very biased against the Soviets (he had a personal vendetta against Botvinnik too). Also just want to say that the US championship at this time is very weak if you compare it to the Soviet Championship.
mpaetz wrote:
He was a top GM, several-time national champion, and was considered one of the six best players in the world in 1948 when FIDE organized a tournament to crown a new World Champion to replace the recently-Alekhine. How can you call that "underrated"?
Reshevsky was actually the favourite to win in 1948 after Euwe showed that he was truly passed his prime. FIDE didn't pick the 6 best players, they picked those who had participated in AVRO in 1938. Reuben Fine refused to play and was replaced by Smyslov. It wasn't based on their current chess ability because that was very hard to measure.
aflfooty wrote:
Every great chess player dominates in an era or achieves greatness for varying reasons. The late 1940’s and 1950’s saw many great chess giants . Sammy was unlucky to strike some of the very best. Not achieving world champion status may have struck him off many chess players lists but maybe he was the greatest ever to not win one with his record !!
There's also the fact that there was no world chess championship between 1938 and 1948 and he lost much of his prime to WWII (like Botvinnik, Euwe and plenty of other players).
aflfooty wrote:
“greatest ever chess player list” quoted on a web listing across notable scribes doesn’t even have Sammy in the top 50?? Yet Botvinnik came in at 6 and Sammy could match it equally ( if not better) that him.
Hence my point that if you do not have a world championship under your belt you are invisible.
Best ever lists are purely subjective but as a general rule the names in them are simply jumbled according to personal criteria and what value the person places on various aspects of a players career. But I’m continually dumbfounded at how poorly Sammy is rated in these lists and the disregard he has had as time marches on. In his day he was one of the greatest chess players as highlighted here. In modern times invisible. So I highlight his achievements to the younger audience who have a penchant for the history of chess😊😊😊
I mostly agree, Sammy easily deserves a spot in the top 50 (he's roughly 30 imo) but there is no way he can be put even close to Botvinnik. World champion for 15 years and finally lost the title for the last time at 50. He won Nottingham and came 3rd at AVRO. He won a total of 5 world chess championships including the 1948 tournament. Several Soviet Championship and Leningrad championship wins. The list of Botvinnik's achievements is just massive.
Jul 19, 2023
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#26
Yes. I have Botvinnik in my top 5 best ever. There is no better argument for that than facts!! as mentioned.
Yet Sammy managed to beat him in a tournament. Yes, only just one tournament but on board one head to head across a number of games , not just one.
Could he have done it regularly. I doubt it .
I think Sammy at his best was underrated because he couldn’t sustain top level results at world level to become world champion. But he could beat most of them on occasions but not when it counted most.
The analogy in a sport I follow is in tennis. I know that my fellow Australian Nick Kyrgios has beaten EACH of the big three best tennis players in the world in a row when he first played them.
But that’s about all. He will be forgotten in history for many reasons we all know.
Just like Sammy when you look at the honour board of world champions and see he is not there.
It’s just something my father showed me when I was younger and the soviets ruled the world of chess.
Jul 19, 2023
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#27
The original question is "WAS Sammy Reshevsky underrated?" Whatever differing opinions might be held by today's players, historians or "experts" he was respected as one of the top players in the world in his own time. A remarkable child prodigy, clearly the best player in the USA for many years, and the player the Soviet chess hierarchy feared the most before Fischer's ascent, the chess world acknowledged his greatness throughout his career.
Jul 19, 2023
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#28
If you dig a little deeper into his career you will notice a long gap away from chess also. To complete his academia. Did this mean he could only rely on his natural ability rather than the rigours of chess theory to be studied.
He wasn’t one to pursue the learning of all book chess openings and theories of chess like the soviets at the time.
“”Reshevsky never became a truly professional chess player. He gave up competitive chess for seven years, from 1924 to 1931, to complete his secondary education. He graduated from the University of Chicago in 1934 with a degree in accounting and supported himself and his family by working as an accountant.””
Jul 19, 2023
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#29
“””at Zurich were under orders from both their chess leadership and the KGB not to let Reshevsky win the tournament under any circumstances, with Smyslov being the preferred victor. Bronstein claims that when Reshevsky maintained his strong contention late into the two-month event, the Soviets prearranged several results in games amongst themselves to successfully prevent Reshevsky's overall victory”””
I didn’t know you could “ gang up” on a chess player to stop him winning?
mpaetz commented on this fear by the soviets
aflfooty wrote:
“””at Zurich were under orders from both their chess leadership and the KGB not to let Reshevsky win the tournament under any circumstances, with Smyslov being the preferred victor. Bronstein claims that when Reshevsky maintained his strong contention late into the two-month event, the Soviets prearranged several results in games amongst themselves to successfully prevent Reshevsky's overall victory”””
I didn’t know you could “ gang up” on a chess player to stop him winning?
mpaetz commented on this fear by the soviets
Bronstein isn't the most reliable source, it's really hard to know exactly what the Soviets were or weren't doing.
aflfooty wrote:
If you dig a little deeper into his career you will notice a long gap away from chess also. To complete his academia. Did this mean he could only rely on his natural ability rather than the rigours of chess theory to be studied.
He wasn’t one to pursue the learning of all book chess openings and theories of chess like the soviets at the time.
“”Reshevsky never became a truly professional chess player. He gave up competitive chess for seven years, from 1924 to 1931, to complete his secondary education. He graduated from the University of Chicago in 1934 with a degree in accounting and supported himself and his family by working as an accountant.””
This was extremely common at this time. Nearly all players even World Champions had other jobs too. Botvinnik, for example, had a full career in Electrical engineering and completely stopped playing at several times throughout his reign to focus on engineering or his family. Smyslov was a singer, Taimanov was a pianist, Tal was an editor, I think Spassky and Petrosian both worked as journalists. Plenty of players also took time off to complete education or get degrees/doctorates.
Samuel Reshevsky was a extraordinary player, something that is recognised by most.
I met him before. The first chess book I ever studied was by him. The Art Of Positional Play I think it was titled. I wish I had it with me when I met him, I probably could've got him to sign it.
Jul 29, 2023
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#35
I just want to also highlight another comment earlier. Reuben Fine had a great career also but his early life story was fascinating .From where he started to where he finished a truly great story in the history of chess
Jul 29, 2023
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#36
“””Fine began chess as a young teenager at the famous Manhattan Chess Club, where he hustled for nickels, until he was asked to stop; he used the money to help feed his family. Afterwards he moved to the rival Marshall Chess Clubin New York City, stomping grounds for many famous players, such as Bobby Fischer, later on.”””
Jul 29, 2023
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#37
“””At this stage of his career, Fine played a great deal of blitz chess, and he eventually became one of the best blitz players in the world. By the early 1930s, he could nearly hold his own in blitz chess against the then world champion Alexander Alekhine, although Fine admitted that the few times he played blitz with Alekhine's predecessor José Raúl Capablanca, the latter beat him "mercilessly".”””
Jul 29, 2023
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#38
“””Fine graduated from City College of New York in 1932, at the age of 18; he was a successful student there. He captained CCNY to the 1931 National Collegiate team title; a teammate was master Sidney Bernstein. This tournament later evolved into the Pan American Intercollegiate Team Chess Championship. Fine then decided to try the life of a chess professional for a few years.”””
Jul 29, 2023
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#39
“””In 1938, Fine tied for first place with Paul Keres in the prestigious AVRO tournament in the Netherlands, scoring 8½/14, with Keres placed first on tiebreak. This was one of the most famous tournaments of the 20th century.”””
“””Fine finished ahead of future champion Mikhail Botvinnik, current champion Alekhine, former world champions Max Euwe and Capablanca, and Samuel Reshevsky and Salo Flohr.”””
Wow!!!!!!!!