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Bobby Fischer vs. Magnus Carlsen

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salwilliam
fabelhaft wrote:

Carlsen has often talked about how little influence computers had on his development

I didn't know this (again I am a clueless newb). That's a point for Carlsen. Still, he's been learning a ton all of his life from matches played in the modern era. Regardless whether he studied much modern theory / computer stuff directly, he certainly sponged up benefits by being exposed to it.

quietheathen1st
ShamusMcFlannigan wrote:
fabelhaft wrote:

"Doesn't it feel like Fischer would have an edge in the trial where they both had equal old school training?"

I think such things are more or less impossible to speculate about. Fischer and Spassky both had old school training and after seven games between them Spassky had +5-0=2. After the 1972 match finished Fischer was up 7-6 in wins. 

Carlsen has often talked about how little influence computers had on his development, he for a long time mainly studied the old school way and his early coaches were amazed at his lack of computer work.

Would Carlsen beat Spassky, all things equal? Also difficult to say,  but when experts rank the greatest World Champions the latter often ends up in the bottom two with Euwe. As World Champion he was never ranked #1. Carlsen on the other hand has been clear #1 for more than a decade, and he faces opposition that is far from old school. Maybe he would do better against Fischer than Spassky did.

I've always felt that Spassky was horribly underrated in terms of not only his Strength as a champion but also his achievements as a theoretician.

Now Botvinnik on the other hand...

its war worse than that lol, fischer literally said that spassky is the strongest player he ever played against. tal also said that during 1970 or something, spassky was 100% the strongest player alive. spassky aint in the top 5 strongest world champs imo, but he should be in the top 10, instead of the bottom. the guy was complete monster. 

 

quietheathen1st

people really think fischer would beat magnus in an endgame? didnt see that one coming lol. not to mention saying that fischer wins cuz he studied more. i can safely say that all of the people magnus plays currently study more than him. didnt hikaru say that if it werent for magnus, levon, caruana, and hikaru himself couldve been world champs? thats pretty much him saying that magnus has to play against 3 world champ lvl players on pretty much every tournament he attends lol he beats fischer 100% imo, but its not a stomp at all. he just wins is all.

ShamusMcFlannigan
quietheathen1st wrote:
ShamusMcFlannigan wrote:
fabelhaft wrote:

"Doesn't it feel like Fischer would have an edge in the trial where they both had equal old school training?"

I think such things are more or less impossible to speculate about. Fischer and Spassky both had old school training and after seven games between them Spassky had +5-0=2. After the 1972 match finished Fischer was up 7-6 in wins. 

Carlsen has often talked about how little influence computers had on his development, he for a long time mainly studied the old school way and his early coaches were amazed at his lack of computer work.

Would Carlsen beat Spassky, all things equal? Also difficult to say,  but when experts rank the greatest World Champions the latter often ends up in the bottom two with Euwe. As World Champion he was never ranked #1. Carlsen on the other hand has been clear #1 for more than a decade, and he faces opposition that is far from old school. Maybe he would do better against Fischer than Spassky did.

I've always felt that Spassky was horribly underrated in terms of not only his Strength as a champion but also his achievements as a theoretician.

Now Botvinnik on the other hand...

its war worse than that lol, fischer literally said that spassky is the strongest player he ever played against. tal also said that during 1970 or something, spassky was 100% the strongest player alive. spassky aint in the top 5 strongest world champs imo, but he should be in the top 10, instead of the bottom. the guy was complete monster. 

 

Couldn't agree more.  People seem to forget what he did to Larsen, Bronstein, and pretty much everyone else... Even supposedly made Fischer cry with his feared King's Gambit

snoozyman
Fischer beats Carlsen in Fischer Chess.
ShamusMcFlannigan
snoozyman wrote:
Fischer beats Carlsen in Fischer Chess.

I don't think Fischer wins under any conditions.  Carlsen can/will play a wide variety of positions/openings and rely on his strength while Fischer was more a believer in "correct" play and had a narrower style.  Carlsen is at home anywhere in the game and has a huge psychological edge. 

SagebrushSea
Oakus wrote:

I have no idea what that was, but, as far as I can tell, it wasn't anything like the advertised game.  Plus, in the ending it also wasn't chess.

LetsPlay226

@infestationpit you are daydreaming in a daylight

LetsPlay226

magnus fan boys always say blah blah blah bullshit

2000Knights

I think Magnus would have won because the rating is higher. Fisher is about 2600 and Magnus is 2800

2000Knights

Idk who would have won. There should be a Fisher Bot. 

quietheathen1st
ravigagne wrote:

I think Magnus would have won because the rating is higher. Fisher is about 2600 and Magnus is 2800

fischer's rating got to 2785, at his peak, which is not bad at all. it wouldve been much higher if the other players in his era were also rated a bit higher. albeit, i will say, fischer did have some circumstantial advantages that allowed him to reach that high rating that people dont know or dont care about. anyhow, magnus is just a better player than fischer. people are gonna eat me alive for this, but one cant even make an argument saying that fischer beats wesley so, much less peak magnus.

NathanAusChess

I like Bobby Fischer.

FangBo

It's all speculation, we will never know for sure. In my opinion, Carlsen would be the favourite in the no computer era, and Bobby would be favourite in computer era since Bobby had exceptional memory.

Chessfanatic34

Fischer was and still is the best player to ever touch the chess pieces. His accuracy was incredible, you even put his games through Stockfish and you can see, that he made all the best moves. Players today have it to easy with all the computers and training material. Like a few people said on here, just imagine if Fischer had computers to his disposal, he would definitely beat them all.

prakashnarayanj

Carlson is just a robot , fishcer was magical .

quietheathen1st
FangBo wrote:

It's all speculation, we will never know for sure. In my opinion, Carlsen would be the favourite in the no computer era, and Bobby would be favourite in computer era since Bobby had exceptional memory.

u do know that magnus's biggest and most powerful 'trait' is his memory, right? lol

quietheathen1st
Chessfanatic34 wrote:

Fischer was and still is the best player to ever touch the chess pieces. His accuracy was incredible, you even put his games through Stockfish and you can see, that he made all the best moves. Players today have it to easy with all the computers and training material. Like a few people said on here, just imagine if Fischer had computers to his disposal, he would definitely beat them all.

18 year old magnus was shown to be the most accurate player in history, iirc 

talkingcat90
snoozyman wrote:
Fischer beats Carlsen in Fischer Chess.

 

I think snoozyman is right.  If, hypothetically, Fischer at his peak was to play Carlsen at his peak, then 960 or Fischer Random would be the only way to do it because that removes the influence of developments in chess that have occurred since Fischer's era.  

They could do something like randomly generate 20 opening positions and then Fischer chooses 5 and Carlsen chooses 5.  (In this video Eugene Torre mentions his ideas about how these kinds of 960 matches would work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txXycLf2VV4). 

There would be some period of preparation (maybe 3 months or so) for each to analyze and develop openings for these 10 opening positions.  Then, the match would be based on individual ability to prepare and theorize as well as inventiveness over the board.

Circumlocutions
If Bobby Fischer had stable mental health he would easily be regarded as the GOAT