Petroff or the Philidor

If you had to choose

Which one and why? 

Philidor

Easy!

Petroff!

Reason is two-fold.

1) The sounder of the two (objectively speaking)

2) Metcalf personally, it's an extremely easy choice as the only two openings I have played over the board as Black against 1.e4 in the last 8 years have been 1...e6 and 1...e5, and against 2.Nf3 after 1.e4 e5, 100% of the time I responded 2...Nf6, so a VERY EASY choice for me.

Way less theory.

If your main prerogative is less theory, play the Borg (1.e4 g5). Poor excuse to choose the Philidor over the Petroff.

The Petroff is fine. I wasn't suggesting that the Philidor was better. I was referring to the overall amount of theory needed to play the Petroff as opposed to the Philidor. Particularly, White's second move alternatives.

This is why I generally don't answer questions like this because I end up having to write paragraphs explaining what my reasons are.

Chess is a big ocean. There is room to swim for every one.

Personally, Philidor. White has fewer choices of different plan, making it easier to learn and I don't have much time to devote to opening study. I know that's not a good objective reason for a preference, but in the world as-we-have-it one must cut one's suit to fit one's cloth. Black keeps White guessing about his broad intentions a little longer too; as in, "Is this going to be a classical Philidor or a Hanham/Lion or even a Mestel-style Philidor Gambit?".

Petroff, because your opponents will eventually find very aggressive lines versus your Philidor/Lion and all your study there will be questionable, I have played both

I would choose the Philidor because it is less symmetrical and more unbalanced.

I would pick the Philidor.

The Philidor isn't any less solid vs. Petroff.

I would argue both openings are top tier.

The Philidor has been played by players such as Magnus, Levon, Dubov, Ivanchuk and list goes on

The Philidor has been played using both the Classical Philidor move order and the alternative Pirc move order which can transpose into Philidor.

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I will admit.

I have played the Philidor and so you could say I am a little bit more Bias towards the Philidor.

I use to tell people the Philidor is more beginner friendly.

However, I think times have changed. I think both lines can be beginner friendly.

The introduction of the Stafford Gambit (Petroff side line) has become very popular among aggressive beginners so the Petroff has been gaining some steam due to side line players like to play.

The Stafford Gambit isn’t as solid as normal Petroff or Philidor, but it can be a lot of fun.

So yeah - you have options.

I still would recommend Philidor though just because I like it.

I like to play 1...,d6 against 1.e4.

It avoids most of White's second move alternatives instead of 2.Nf3. I think it makes it hard for white to play variations like the Bishops opening or the Urasov Gambit properly. White can still play 2.Nc3 but I think it still transposes into the Philidor if that is what Black wants. I don't know, I'm still studying.

If white plays 1.e4,d6 2.f4,... I have two choices. I can play the Fischer defense in the Kings Gambit Declined. Or I can play 2...,c5 and go into a Gran Prix Sicilian.

I believe with the Petroff move order you will have to know theory in the Kings Gambit, the Bishops opening, the Urasov Gambit, and white playing 2.Nc3.

I guess that x) g3,... is also an option for White with a kingside fianchetto.

For me petrov is the choice I'd make here. Bishops opening just learn the Nf6 / c6 line.

Kings gambit is not worth being afraid of & changing your repertoire for.

If you want to really avoid theory my recommendation would be to just not play e4/e5.

In the philidor yeah you can avoid common theory via d6, but you'll need to play precisely regardless. And whites moves are pretty natural.

For a true anti-theory e4/e5 repertoire I might also consider the paris defense vs. the italian + the fiancetto defense vs. the ruy lopez. Then for the scotch... I'd just learn it, I'm not afraid of it anyway.

I really just prefer the sicilian though.

@Post #11

You should play Fischer Defense - Kings Gambit Accepted.

White Best move is Nf3 on move 3.

Than you take pawn as Black.

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The move 2…c5 is bad because it allows White to get into an improved Grand Prix.

I play the Closed Sicilian/Grand Prix Attack.

The move d6 is considered an error in that position which allows white to play f4. It can be dangerous for Black to allow White to play the above way.

Black doesn’t play 2…d6 vs. Closed Sicilian.

They play a6, Nc6, e6, or g6

If Black plays any of above moves, Than White often plays 3.g3 going into Closed Sicilian 
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Its just something to think about.

Thanks. I knew that it transposed to a Gran Prix Sicilian but I didn't understand that it may be an unfavorable variation for black.

Personally, I have found nothing that I truly enjoy playing against 1.e4

You are sadly mistaken!

In fact, the Philidor can be completely avoided! What if I told you I could force you into a Saemisch Kings Indian or Saemisch-Style position against the old Indian? Yep! Even with the whole theory that 1...d6 is a better move order - try again! There are also many anti-philidor lines in that move order!

After 1.e4 e5, it is the same options for White to avoid the Philidor as it is to avoid the Petroff.

After 1.e4 d6, the following all avoid the Philidor:

2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+

2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.f4

2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.g4

And then there is my favorite:

2.d4 Nf6 3.f3! Where 3...g6 4.c4 Bg7 5.Nc3 is a Saemisch King's Indian and 3...e5 4.d5 can lead again to a saemisch kings indian or an old Indian setup, depending on what Black does with the Bishop.

Just in case your wondering why 2…d6 is an error.

When White plays Grand Prix Attack, It is a very aggressive King side attack (Flank Attack).

Black best way to survive the attack is be counter attacking in the middle with the moves e6 + d5.

If you play d6, Your D pawn will have moved 2 times because you ideally want pawn on d5 in that position.

So the move d6 is an error because it gives white an extra move.

If you play d6 + e6 + d5, You have played 3 moves.

If you play e6 + d5, You have played only 2 moves.

Yes

Excellent points Thillerfan!!!

I have played 6 major line’s against 1.e4.

I have played dozen if not more variations among the major lines against 1.e4.

- Sicilian - c5

- Caro Kan - c6

- King Pawn - e5

- French - e6

- Modern - g6

- Pirc - d6

I eventually settled on Sicilian Nadjorf.

The Philidor has some great similarities to Nadjorf.

This is why I have always been attracted to it.

The biggest downside for me was the Anti-Philidor lines. I liked Philidor position, but not Anti-lines.

The Sicilian has Anti-Sicilian lines as well, but most of them seem easier to me.

The above line is popular for white.

Black position doesn’t feel like a Philidor.

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1.e4 is a lot tougher to deal with for sure.

You are probably going to have to try several different things to find line you like best.

Personally, I found that I like balanced opening.

I like my openings to have mixture of aggression + positional play.