Opinion Of The Owen’s

Utter crap!

...b6 lines that allow e4 are only decent when White has committed to c4, like in the English Defense.

1.e4 b6 - Garbage!  After 2.d4 Bb7 3.Bd3, White is better as long as he avoids c2-c4.  Depending on Black's response, Nc3 or c2-c3 is better than c2-c4.

1 d4 b6 - Garbage!  2.e4! then see above

1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 - This is ok, but it is no longer Owen's Defense.  This is the English Defense.  White can play e4 here, but with c4 also played, d4 is weakened.

1.c4 b6 - This again is fine, and another version of the English Defense.  I would not play it these days, but not going to argue that it is unsound like Owen's is.  Just not my cup of tea!

1.Nf3 b6 - Slightly dubious, but not quite as bad as White does not have time to get in both e4 and d4 immediately, he has to work in moves like Nc3, which committing too early can also be a problem.

So in summary:

1.e4 b6 - Bad

1.d4 b6 - Bad

1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 - Sound, but you must be willing to play the French if 2.e4.

1.c4 b6 - Sound

1.Nf3 b6 - Somewhere between Dubious and Unclear.

Hope this helps.

at your level anything reasonable can be played. your main role is to make sensical moves and blunder less

dont listen to thriller he think his opinion is law and completely forget to check who is  asking.

spelling out these differences like they mean a darn thing to a player rated below a 1000 is hilarious. when i was a scholastic player  like 30 percent of my games were kids losing the e4 pawn by move 5 in the owen's

You have no idea what I think, and therefore I have one word to describe you:

LIAR!

Pretty sure he's basing it off how you talk, it's called an assumption and if you wish to refute it do it kindly. It's a chess forum. Chill.

And you know what assumptions are worth?  Do you know what you do when you assume?  You make an A$$ out of U and ME!

You also don't know the history of darkunorthodox88.  He attacks any post I ever put up.  I could say Trenton is the capital of New Jersey and he will find a way to argue.  He continuously posts counter-productive posts that attack me, no matter what I say.

And I could care less what someone's rating is when I answer a question that is posted.  I simply speak the truth.  Just because the OP is 1000 instead of 2000 doesn't change the answer.  I will never advise anybody to play something that is unsound and bad.  The difference between a 1000 and a 2500 player is that the 1000 player doesn't need to play what is necessarily the "absolute best" line.  But I would still never advise even a 1000 player to play something that is unsound.

A 2500 player, if he wants an advantage after 1.e4 c5, is going to have to basically play the Open Sicilian

A 1000 player can just as easily play the Alapin (It's sound, just no advantage) or the Closed (same deal as the Alapin) or the Grand Prix Attack.

But if a 1000 player says "Maybe I should play 1.e4 c5 2.h4.  Even though his opponent won't know how to refute it, it is still utter crap, and I would never advise anybody, even rated 1000, to play 2.h4 against the Sicilian.

The difference is, you learn that trash, and once you reach any decent rating, you would have to start all over again just to be able to maintain equality at the higher levels.

At least with something like the Alapin Sicilian, while you won't get an advantage against a 2500 player, you should still be able to maintain an equal position, and are not desparate to find another line just to survive.  Long term, you probably want to switch to the Open Sicilian when you reach that level, but you aren't dead with the stuff you already know.

That is the basis for what I say.  Anybody that goes around saying "but he's only XXXX, it's fine", you will NEVER get me to agree with such garbage logic.  There is playing for an advantage, playing sound chess, and playing garbage chess.  A GM needs to play for the advantage as White.  The amateur simply should play sound chess.  1...b6 is not sound for Black if White is still able to play e4 and is not committed to c4.  If you have control of e4, then playing ...b6 lines are fine, like 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6.  If White has committed to c4, weakening certain squares and diagonals, then ...b6 is also fine, like the English Defense.

This is all true at ANY rating!

At your current rating, the opening you play will not matter.  I know a kid who recently earned his NM title and played the Owen's exclusively (even in slow time controls) until he was about 1800 USCF.  It was at that point he started running into people who could refute it and switched to something else.

In terms of the theoretical value of it, Thriller is not wrong: it is crap, but you will not be at the point where the opening you play will matter much for quite a while,.so if you enjoy the positions and the few traps it has, go for it.

But I will reiterate, the opening you play right now (and for the foreseeable future) is not going to matter.  Magnus played the Borg and Grob against IMs and GMs in a Titled Tuesday a few weeks back.  Those are objectively the worst openings you can play.  He finished the event at something like 9/11 (give or take).  If he can play literally the worst openings against the best players in the world and crush them, it should show you that you do not need to spend so much time worrying about your openings.

Told y'all we'd have a debate

Can't even talk about an opening

It's decent for intermediates and under.

I played Owen's Defense for a while at 2100 level and my rating didn't go down. I believe darkunorthodox88 plays this opening, so probably his opinion on it can be trusted.

You said "I couldn't find anything on it". Put "owens defense" (without the quotes) in the "Search forum topics..." box and you will find quite a lot of information, including some lines where black has to be pretty careful.

Lower level it is fine but it gets harder to pull it off the higher up you go. Maybe as a surprise weapon but that’s it. You are better off learning something more solid as I guarantee you will plateau at a certain point from playing it

In database.chessbase.com, white scored +7 =3 -7 using 1.e4 c5 2.h4. Hugh Myers played all kinds of offbeat openings, including 1.e4 c5 2.a4, and his criterion was not whether it was best, but whether there was an _idea_ behind it. This seems sensible at all ratings. Here we see white playing a known Anand favorite (1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4) with colors reversed and an extra h2-h4 move. Not the greatest thing, but it's something.

It is quite playable.

If these guys can play it in blitz, you can play it in classical games
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2017503 

Here is a classical time control grandmaster game in a top tournament
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1098299 

Anytime you mention the owens @darkunorthodox88 is sure to pop up

IMO it's ok. I don't know why people would choose to play it, I think black has some difficulties even when white knows very little, but it's fine. After 1.e4 b6 OTB I'd just expect a normal game of chess. I wouldn't expect to win or look down on the opening or anything like that. I'd probably get an equal middlegame and just play chess from there.

Err... but only if I'm playing someone like DO who uses it as a pet line. If it's just some random idi ot playing ...b6 because they don't know what they're doing, then I'd expect to get a very nice middlegame.

Also, I'm unsure how good it would be to play OTB if everyone knows you play it and will prepare for you.

i have played the owens since when i was an unrated scholastic player  all the way to the present. I pretty much play it about 50% of all my games as black (1.x b6 i mean)

this is what you will encounter/ought to know
-until about 1200 , most games will be white will play 1.e4 2.d4 3.nc3 4.nf3 and you have like a 40% chance of winning the e pawn via bb4 bxc3 and bxe4. until about 1400 is same but pawn is blundered less often

-1400-1800: here players will prepare  a 4-7 move reply  which means black needs to prove he knows the main resources of counterplay. This is so rarely seen though that in an average tournament you may be one if not the first time they seen it. You should know far more about the Owen's then they do.

-1800-2200: Here you will encounter to one degree or another all the major lines,, qe2 stuff,, nd2 stuff ,nc3-ne2 stuff,, gambit lines so you will need to know Owen's at least 10-12 moves deep in multiple major sidelines.

2200+: at this point, if you play this win any regularity, you not only need to know the critical lines 15+ moves deep and rarely ever be surprised, but with the help of databases, engines and games from the b6 masters , you will need to explore lots of original territory . You pretty much a pioneer to some  degree. A lot of my games for example appear in highest rated games on some owen lines in the lichess database. 

i think these stats speak for themselves
https://lichess.org/3chAv3ho#4 (click on darkunorthodox as black, they all from 15+10 games mind you)

I don't agree that it's an OK choice for lower-rated players. Taking two moves to develop a piece on the queenside slows your development, and following opening principles like quick development is all the more important at the lower levels when you're unlikely to have memorized tricky book lines. Certainly at my 1600-ish level I'm always pleased when an opponent plays Owen's because it usually means a quick win for me.

remind me which piece 1.c5 and 1.c6 develops exactly