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Old Benoni as white

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trw0311
I’ve been playing d4 with hopes of playing variants of the jobava London, and occasionally I get a Benoni like the one above. 

I have played 99% 1.e4 so I have really no idea what to do against this opening. I just went for a giuco/ slow Italian knight on f4 attack and it worked out.
computer kind of liked it but it was a somewhat short game.

TheNameofNames

clean

Compadre_J

Letting your center pawn be taken by a flank pawn is bad, unless you get some sort of compensation.

In your game case, you had no compensation.

You lost a center pawn for flank pawn.

Than took back with Queen and lost a tempo.

Compadre_J

A better idea would be to either push the pawn so it doesn’t get traded by flank pawn

Or

You could play a move like Nf3 so that if your opponent does take center pawn. You at least get slightly development lead + more centralized knight.

trw0311
Compadre_J wrote:

A better idea would be to either push the pawn so it doesn’t get traded by flank pawn

Or

You could play a move like Nf3 so that if your opponent does take center pawn. You at least get slightly development lead + more centralized knight.

I think I will try d5 next time I run into a Benoni. You’re right I definitely lost the opening! Trying to learn these less common responses to 1d4 now

Compadre_J

Another option I didn’t mention is taking the pawn.

You have to be careful when taking the pawn.

The above example would be another reasonable way to play because your gaining compensation by having slightly development lead similar to Nf3 line I mentioned previously.

The only bad thing would be if Black tries to get pawn Back with a piece with out letting you gain development or any compensation.

For example:

Something like above would be bad because again your trading a center pawn (which are considered slightly more superior to other pawns) vs. flank pawn.

And your not gaining anything in exchange for trade.

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I have never played the Jobava London.

However, The advice I gave doesn’t have anything to do with the Jobava London persay.

It has to do with pawns.

ibrust

You play the Smith Morra already, so you can just do this -

It's not common, only 1% of players respond this way. I like this line but only for its transpositional value via the Morphy Gambit. As a sicilian player... bringing a Benoni player into a Sicilian seems good (though I guess you could check their game history first to be sure they aren't a sicilian player... but I'd play it anyway - I'm happy reducing the burden on myself of having to learn additional theory for the old benoni - a very rare line) -

insane

my openings suck, Scandinavian is soooo boring as black and white. I always transpose it into a blackmar by playing D4

trw0311
ibrust wrote:

You play the Smith Morra already, so you can just do this -

It's not common, only 1% of players respond this way. I like this line but only for its transpositional value via the Morphy Gambit. As a sicilian player... bringing a Benoni player into a Sicilian seems good (though I guess you could check their game history first to be sure they aren't a sicilian player... but I'd play it anyway - I'm happy reducing the burden on myself of having to learn additional theory for the old benoni - a very rare line) -

Great idea ! Never thought I'd see you condone the morra wink.png

ibrust

I do feel a bit ashamed playing it even when I know I'm going to transpose out of it on the very next move. But actually I think it's very good here, especially if black isn't a sicilian player. And the Morphy gambit is a fine transpositional line regardless.

ibrust

It's also worth noting you can combine this d4 / e4 hybrid approach with a few interesting anti-benoni lines which can occur in other contexts.

This is another way black could reach the benoni -

You can avoid this via playing the french... otherwise you'd need to learn a benoni plus the kangaroo defense / english defense / the delayed dutch... all uncommon lines. on the other hand, the french you can consistently face via e4. This also will enable you to play some more gambit lines against the mainline dutch without worrying about black avoiding those lines. Likewise against 1... b6 you can just play owens defense. This makes sense especially given you already have a sort of hybrid e4 + d4 repertoire with the chigorin setup -

 

But if you really hate the french... this line leading to the symmetrical tarrasch or panov is another option -

Then here the d4/c4 player can avoid the Benko / Benoni via this odd line called the Weenink variation. Which I think looks excellent for white. Good luck finding Ng4 here -

Or this line you can play the symmetrical tarrasch / panov again. 
Of course you could also just avoid the these lines via the trompowsky as well -
 
 
I've found one of the most understated benefits of playing different 1st-moves as white is you can often either a) transpose rare moves black plays into common lines you play as white in other openings, b) commonly face lines that are rare in other openings, strengthening your knowledge of them... ie.. you're playing the chigorin setup (d4/Nc3) - you get a pirc there 20% of the time or something due to confused indian players trying in vain to transpose. So you get really good practice against the Pirc. 
chessterd5

The Benoni with 1...,c5 is the only way to avoid the London by black.

A) Pushing d5 by white is theoretically the best move. But it does allow black to transpose into any variation of the Benoni that he chooses.

B) white can defend the pawn with c3 or e3 but not Nf3. It leads to tactical complications for white later.

C) white can take the pawn with 2)dxc5,... but white cannot defend his pawn on c5. It also plays into the potential of the Old Benoni trap where white loses his queenside rook.

Compadre_J

I use to play a line known as the Clarendon Court.

trw0311
much better and a good result against a very respectable opponent
Compadre_J

Yeah, most people who play the Benoni start by playing 1…Nf6 which is the more Modern way of playing the Benoni.

If you play 1…c5, White can play d5.

Than white can avoid playing c4 and play Nc3 instead.

The Benoni loses a lot of Queenside counter play with out the c4 pawn move by White.

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When I play the Benoni, I often play 1…Nf6 to make sure White plays c4 before committing my c5 pawn.

Most times when I play 1…c5, I am planning to play Clarendon Court.

However, I have started playing a more improved move order recently.

The c5 move is just so committal that Black loses a lot of flexibility.

I have been playing the Clarendon Court with 1…g6 move order which can confuse players.

I know how to play:

- Grunfeld Defense

- Kings Indian Defense

- Modern Defense

- Pterodactyl Defense

- Clarendon Court Defense

All of them play the move g6 so it does offer more flexibility I think.

trw0311
Compadre_J wrote:

Yeah, most people who play the Benoni start by playing 1…Nf6 which is the more Modern way of playing the Benoni.

If you play 1…c5, White can play d5.

Than white can avoid playing c4 and play Nc3 instead.

The Benoni loses a lot of Queenside counter play with out the c4 pawn move by White.

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When I play the Benoni, I often play 1…Nf6 to make sure White plays c4 before committing my c5 pawn.

Most times when I play 1…c5, I am planning to play Clarendon Court.

However, I have started playing a more improved move order recently.

The c5 move is just so committal that Black loses a lot of flexibility.

I have been playing the Clarendon Court with 1…g6 move order which can confuse players.

I know how to play:

- Grunfeld Defense

- Kings Indian Defense

- Modern Defense

- Pterodactyl Defense

- Clarendon Court Defense

All of them play the move g6 so it does offer more flexibility I think.

Looks almost like a delayed Dutch

Compadre_J

The Clarendon Court seems like a Dutch, but it is actually very tricky.

The c5 & f5 pawns create a very unique center gripping effect which makes the CC pretty deadly if not careful.

Most people don’t know how to play against the line.

The 2 Main Lines are very unorthodox.

1 - Main way of playing against the CC is by trying to rush a e4 pawn break to prevent Black from setting up a c5 + f5 pawn bind on center.

2 - Other Main way of playing against the CC is by rushing an h4 pawn break to break up Black King side pawns.

Basically, White’s best approaches are trying to break up Blacks f5, g6, & h7 pawns.

The average chess player isn’t going to know to break up the pawns. The result is Black begins developing and covering all those squares and White ends up in a position completely clueless with no real plan.

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Most engines don’t like the Clarendon Court Defense.

The CCD can get crushed if the person playing White knows what they are doing.

Once, you reach 2k rated, you can’t play normal stuff.

If I play normal line, My opponents will have most of the line memorized or studied from a renounced chess writer.

You have to mix in some weird stuff to throw them off.

chessterd5

It looks like it could have some similarities to a chezc Benoni.

But the center is still fluid. Black could still steer it towards a Modern Benoni type position or even a Benko with f5 already played.