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Most Effective Opening vs The English?

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MagMalol

I was wondering if anyone had any statistics on the highest win rate % opening against the English (1. c4) I've always somewhat struggled against it, ive tried multiple different openings such as the Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack, and the Jaenisch Gambit (as i play the Benko Gambit). But it just feels like no matter what i do, im left not really understanding the English and always at a disadvantage. Granted i did check then, and i am 46% to 46% win rate with the Jaenisch Gambit, but i still feel im always at a disadvantage using that opening, compared to the Benko where I have serious compensation.

Any help would be much appreciated, im OFTEN a more tactical/aggressive player, but I am not opposed to more positional openings.

Mentalsiz_v2

Well, I have been playing 1.c4 for as long as I can remember and here's my two cents:

1- First off, forget about the Jaenisch Gambit. I don't see how Black may EVER get to play for a win after 2.cxb5 a6 3.bxa6 Bxa6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.g3 e5 6.Bg2 d5 7.O-O c5 (fun fact: your win rate in this position is 0/3) 8.d4.

2- Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack is okay by itself but 2.g3 is a very pleasant way to avoid it which I play exclusively for this very reason.

3A- In my opinion, the most challenging lines are the ones starting with 1...e5 2...Nc6 3...f5. The good thing about most English lines is that White does not really have much but Black has problems - here, though, White has problems too and it's game on.

3B- 1...e5 2...f5 is also playable with the idea of meeting d2-d4 with ...e5-e4?! which is not possible in the lines starting with ...Nc6. Although I would rather not allow d2-d4, I would not necessarily worry about the fact that the engine does not particularly like the resulting position after d2-d4 ...e5-e4 either. The resulting structure is far from easy for White to play. Take the following position as an example:

White is an exchange up but Black has the semi-open f-file to work with in addition to the French Structure with the colors reversed. I tried to beat some strong bots (2200-2400 rated) from this position onwards and let me tell you, it's mind-blowing how fast the initial evaluation of +1.4 goes down.

Hope this helps.

MagMalol
Mentalsiz_v2 wrote:

Well, I have been playing 1.c4 for as long as I can remember and here's my two cents:

1- First off, forget about the Jaenisch Gambit. I don't see how Black may EVER get to play for a win after 2.cxb5 a6 3.bxa6 Bxa6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.g3 e5 6.Bg2 d5 7.O-O c5 (fun fact: your win rate in this position is 0/3) 8.d4.

2- Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack is okay by itself but 2.g3 is a very pleasant way to avoid it which I play exclusively for this very reason.

3A- In my opinion, the most challenging lines are the ones starting with 1...e5 2...Nc6 3...f5. The good thing about most English lines is that White does not really have much but Black has problems - here, though, White has problems too and it's game on.

3B- 1...e5 2...f5 is also playable with the idea of meeting d2-d4 with ...e5-e4?! which is not possible in the lines starting with ...Nc6. Although I would rather not allow d2-d4, I would not necessarily worry about the fact that the engine does not particularly like the resulting position after d2-d4 ...e5-e4 either. The resulting structure is far from easy for White to play. Take the following position as an example:

White is an exchange up but Black has the semi-open f-file to work with in addition to the French Structure with the colors reversed. I tried to beat some strong bots (2200-2400 rated) from this position onwards and let me tell you, it's mind-blowing how fast the initial evaluation of +1.4 goes down.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for sharing brother, super helpful, and interesting to see i was 0/3 in that specific like with the Jaenisch, as i said, i do feel like its just putting me at a disadvantage straight away, just haven't found something that clicks yet. Cheers for all of this though, seriously useful

RalphHayward

The late Mike Basman used to swear by 1..., g5 against the English. His argument was that 1. c4 stops White from playing Bc4 attacking the f7 weakness and means White can't shore up the centre by playing c3 after the Bf8 goes to g7. Probably a gnat's less dodgy than other Grob-type lines, but it's utter mad hackery all the way. Should the thought appeal, buy and dive into a copy of "U Cannot Be Serious" (Welling & Basman). I've tried this sort of thing out a few times (aesthetically, I really admire Basman's games) and I believe I have a 100% loss rate with it. So maybe it's a case of, "Don't try this at home, kids!"

jli30c

I always play C5

Mazetoskylo

Something with an early c6 (including a fairly modern gambit) is an idea.

The resulting positions are very complex, so suitable for a win (or loss) with Black.

RalphHayward

Hilariously, I took a look at Openings Explorer on this very site and discovered that the first move for Black with the best percentage win rate after. 1. c4 is 1..., h5. I can only imagine that the player with the White Pieces was so busy laughing like the famous moment from the Iliad when Hephaestos plays cupbearer ("asbestos gelos") that he failed to play sufficiently well in response. Basman dubbed 1..., h5 the "Swansea River" opening. But even he didn't recommend it despite his well-known offbeat approach. Stats sometimes tell us surprisingly little.

ibrust

The line I like against the english is 1... e5.

It's a reversed sicilian, so if you're a sicilian player you can leverage your understanding of the positions. Leveraging knowledge from other openings is good when the defense you're facing is not too common. Also... white players tend to play the same moves every time, it ends up being a pretty small repertoire.

This Adhiban gambit is one line I play here, it's rare but black is doing well and you get a sharp / active game -

Otherwise I'm just going for the Smyslov, it's an almost-equal sicilian style position so what more can you ask for as a sicilian player -

And against an early g3 I do this accelerated Keres line -

With just those 3 lines you cover about 95% how english players respond

1.... e5 does make more sense if you play the sicilian, but I don't think this is a requirement, it's a very compact repertoire.