Caro Kann - 1) e4 c6 2) f4

I've been playing the Caro for about a year or two now and I keep coming across this 2) f4 move.

If you play it or refute it, please do post.

Here are my thoughts on this move:

1) They're aware e5 is weak in the Caro and they want to reinforce a knight on this square by means of a bind.

2) If the Carlsbad pawn structure in the Caro is achieved, it accelerates a possible minority plan for white as opposed towards Black's idea of a minority.

3) At the cost of king safety I suppose f4 then Nf3 seems logical instead of the pawn being shut in by the knight.

4) Ideas of Black castling Kingside, makes sense for White to use f4 as a battering ram with a rook behind it to get to the king.

One thing I've noticed when white adopts this 2) f4 idea is that their pawn structure becomes loose and weak.

Please share your thoughts.

Since I play the Caro I'll look into this and let you know what I find out.

It depends on the line. I suppose white wants to play the advance line with f4, but this is a bit slow. So if white uses a tempo with f4 then black will use his extra tempo for c5 and the game is balanced.

I have not seen the main line if white plays f4 that early. Black will not play Bf5 with the pawn on f4. Also: White does not have to play d4. Black doesn't have to take on e4. If white can show c6 is really not that much use, the e4/f4 block can be quite annoying! Of course, black can try to show early on f4 is not that good either. Of course black can play 2...d5 and either way, f4 is a little slow. You're not going to refute this. In the French white can also throw in f4. It's not THAT good because it blocks your own bishop, but it is annoying to fight all those pawns. I think it's the same here, so I cannot help you there. That is unless white screws up and you blast the game open with c5.

What I did find is the transposition into the Breyer line and this caught my attention.  So 1.e4 c6 2.f4 e5 3.Nf3 d5 and everything is blown up no matter what white plays. I didn't study it in detail but it's the kind of thing I'd like to mess with an annoying opponent.

I just ran into this three times in a row with 1. e4 c6 2. f4 d5 3. e5.  For the life of me I cannot get a position I like with Black. after 3. e5 Bf5 4. d4 e6 5. Nf3 c5, and after that it just seems to be very uncomfortable for Black. Is there any way to comfortably move through this position?

If you're playing an early ...c5 there, the Black's queen knight can go to c6, Black's queen can go to b6, and Black's h-pawn can go to ...h5, and Black's king knight can go to Nh6 (as pfren mentioned above).

Black playing ...h7-h5, before playing ...Nh6, is to prevent White's common plan of playing h3+g4 at some point, to pressure Black's f5 bishop.

Here's an example setup, just to give you a basic idea:

Schandorff covers this in his GM Repertoire book on the Caro-Kann. His main line goes like this:

As pfren noted, f4 in the Caro Advance is simply bad for white. It hems in white's dark squared bishop, which would love to have access to f4-g5-h6, and it also weakens white's g1-a7 diagonal. If the position opens up, that can be a handy line of attack for black.

The only reason for white to play f4 is to attack on the kingside. Once black has played the routine moves Bf5, h5, and Nh6, there's really nothing white can accomplish there. If pawns could move backwards, white would love to play f4-f2. That's of course illegal, so black should be happy with the position.

Did you ever find anything?

It seemed popular for awhile with some limited games played by Short and Movsesian that I found. But in GM play it has fallen into obscurity probably because black seems to equalize easier than in other more traditional lines. The unbalanced nature of play also means there will be fewer draws.

just play c5 and get a good position.

The line from the Schandorf book given above is viable. If you want we can always set up a limited attendance tournament and play some games with the line set up so you can try it out.

https://www.chess.com/game/120700721762

not very familiar with caro but i almost always play f4 against it.

https://www.chess.com/game/120700721762

not very familiar with caro but i almost always play f4 against it.

i've improved a little can you make anothr fun comments in this game please^^

https://www.chess.com/game/live/127406425767

Nice