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1. e3 !?

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kindaspongey wrote:

chris sielecki did a good review of this book he likes it!

OddesE

Wikipedia says this opening 1. e3 is called the Van 't Kruis opening, named after the Dutch player Maarten van 't Kruis.

Most openings that have a name, are in fact playable. They are usually named after some grandmaster that was successful with it, as seems to be the case here. Grandmasters don't often play very bad openings! 1. e3 was played by Nimzowitsch, Larssen and Kasparov. And by Van 't Kruis of course. If it's good enough for them, it's also good enough for you.

According to opening explorer, this is the tenth most popular opening move for white. That may sound ok, but to put it in perspective, as of this writing there were only 828 games played with it, as compared to 943,272 games with 1. e4. Now where these stats come from I am not sure. They don't seem to be chess.com stats, because if you just sum up the amount of games you will see that number is waaaaay to low to represent total chess.com games. I am sure!

According to these statistics, you should always open with 1. Na3! You would have a 70 percent chance of winning and 20 percent chance to draw, according to the 10 (?!) games played starting with 1. Na3. Anyone can see that such numbers are nonsense. I would be very careful trying to derive the strength of the first move from the results of games that on average last around 40 moves. Are you sure you can still 'see' the influence of move one after 40 moves??

It seems that 1. e3 is a solid, though passive opening.

blueemu

There's nothing wrong with 1. e3

darkunorthodox88
DeirdreSkye wrote:
OddesE wrote:

?

It seems that 1. e3 is a solid, though passive opening.

I have no idea where you got the conclusion that 1.e3 is passive.

It will most likely lead to either English or Reti and neither of the 2 is passive.

   The only problem with 1.e3 is that it is hard to play it reasonably without transposing to something else.

   After 1...e5 2.d4 transposes to French exchange after 2...exd4 3.exd4 d5 ,2.c4 is English ,2.b3 is Nimzo Larsen and these 3 are pretty much all the reasonable options.

    Maybe 2.Nf3 and an attempt to play Alekhine's defense with colors reversed is also reasonable(Bent Larsen has done this but with 1.g3 first move instead of 1.e3) but again if Black responds 2...Nc6 White's only choice is to transpose.

    Pretty much that's the reason 1.e3 is not played in high level. The same is the case with the other 2 rare moves, 1.Nc3 and 1.d3 .Nothing wrong with them but difficult to find indipendent value unless you are willing to play unreasonable moves.

i dont even know why you are mentioning 1.nc3 in the same line as 1.e3 1.d3. they are plenty of independent systems that do not transpose with 1.nc3.  whereas 1.d3 and 1.e3 are just transpositions galore.

StinkingHyena

Holy Necrothread! Wasn't this asked in 2008? And yeah since white could completely pass on the first move and still be just as a good as a black then a non weakening move like e3 has to be both a little passive but completely sound. For the record I suspect d3 and c3 to be in the same boat as first moves.

darkunorthodox88
DeirdreSkye wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
OddesE wrote:

?

It seems that 1. e3 is a solid, though passive opening.

I have no idea where you got the conclusion that 1.e3 is passive.

It will most likely lead to either English or Reti and neither of the 2 is passive.

   The only problem with 1.e3 is that it is hard to play it reasonably without transposing to something else.

   After 1...e5 2.d4 transposes to French exchange after 2...exd4 3.exd4 d5 ,2.c4 is English ,2.b3 is Nimzo Larsen and these 3 are pretty much all the reasonable options.

    Maybe 2.Nf3 and an attempt to play Alekhine's defense with colors reversed is also reasonable(Bent Larsen has done this but with 1.g3 first move instead of 1.e3) but again if Black responds 2...Nc6 White's only choice is to transpose.

    Pretty much that's the reason 1.e3 is not played in high level. The same is the case with the other 2 rare moves, 1.Nc3 and 1.d3 .Nothing wrong with them but difficult to find indipendent value unless you are willing to play unreasonable moves.

i dont even know why you are mentioning 1.nc3 in the same line as 1.e3 1.d3. they are plenty of independent systems that do not transpose with 1.nc3.  whereas 1.d3 and 1.e3 are just transpositions galore.

1.Nc3 will transpose to something else as well.

What will you do after 1...d5?

2.e4 transposes to Scandinavian, 2.d4 transposes to Richter Veresov , 2.g3 transposes to Benko or Reti(if Nf3 follows) with the usefulness of the early Nc3 rather doubtful ,2.Nf3 delays the possible transpositions but after 2...Nf6 White is out of reasonable non-transpotional options.

     There are many other lines. What do you do after 1.Nc3 Nf6 if Black wants to play a King's Indian defense? What else except transposing to Pirc or Reti?

     What do you do after 1.Nc3 c5 if Black follows again with Nf6-g6-Bg7? It's either a d3 and e4(with or without k-side fiancheto) or an e3 and d4. What else? And you can't dealy the decision for ever , you don't have unlimited waiting moves. After 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6 you have to decide and all decisions transpose to something else that does the same job better.Unless you play unreasonably  which is pretty much the only way to avoid transpositions. 

       1.Nc3 is a perfectly fine move , I tried to make it work without transposing when I was a kid but I realised it's not possible. It's not a coincidence that very few and very rarely play 1.Nc3 and none has it as his main move while many play 1.Nf3 and a lot have it as their main move.

    Here is a game played in chess.com league and as you can see Mamedyarov doesn't find a way to avoid the transposition to Richter Veresov.

 

Those who play 1.Nc3 regularly also haven't found a way for white to avoid transpositions.

 

 you never heard of the book "knight on the left"? its a well known book, and its the bible of 1.nc3  i find it strange that you consider 1.nc3 d5 2.e4 to be a line of the scandinavian. its the van geet attack, and its always been known that way.

1.nc3 c5 and white can choose between 2.nf3 intending an early d4 WITHOUT an early e4,or even 2.d4!?

white can also play for original lines if white insists on caro kahs and frenchs. for example 1.nc3 d5 2.e4 c6 3.qf3!? or 1.nc3 d5 2.e4 e6 3.g3 intending nf6 4.e5 nfd7 5.f4

 

1.nc3 nf6 is best to transpose to something like veserov or jobava attack, or vienna gambit or 3.g3 vienna, but even moves like 2.g3 or 2.f4 are possible.

 

you need to think more creatively. regardless, so long as white doesnt absolutely insist on no transpositions (1.nc3 nf6 being the most clear exception , he can usually play independent lines at leisure

 

congrandolor

If you like the ruy lopez with Black you could try 1.e3 e5 2. e4!

StinkingHyena
congrandolor wrote:

If you like the ruy lopez with Black you could try 1.e3 e5 2. e4!

 You could but probably 2 d4 with a reverse French like idea plus a move is a better try.

HorribleTomato

e3 d5!? c4! happy.png

Chessflyfisher
GotGoose wrote:

Interestingly, 1. e3 is the third most played move on chess.com according to the Game Explorer: http://www.chess.com/explorer/index.html?db=2

Since when did e3 become popular?  I suppose one could play a reverse French Defense (1. e3 e5 2. a3 d5 3. d4) or a game could transpose into a queen's pawn opening with 1. e3 d5 2. d4.  Can anyone shed some light on this?

You summed it up quite well. It has very little independent significance. It usually transposes into an opening that does not pressure Black. You could look up Van`t Kruys Opening for further explanations.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

The absolute most very flexible first move is either 1. Nc3 or 1. Nf3....

....as u can always move it back if u want.

oscar12356

It is possible it is very popular because of beginner players who play random openings

Snefferdy

When I use the Chess.com analysis engine, set to analysis depth 22(!), using either Komodo or Stockfish, 1. e3 comes up in the top four best moves. Any thoughts about that?

de_rudyk

Damn, guys, I'm just looking for potential dangers and traps from my opponents playing e3 as the first move and just want to study counters for those. And here I am, reading some drama happened on some random chess.com forum 15 years ago

Rem-flo11

wow