Chess Next Generation

Good day. It's been awhile since I shared some of my work regarding chess computers and UI. As always, I appreciate detailed feedback about features people like to see.

I started working on Chess Next Generation (NG) to provide an improved user experience (combination of software and hardware). To start, I want to replicate an experience many chess players are already familiar and comfortable with. A chess board with and chess clock!

DGT3000 is an iconic chess clock for a reason... it works and provides a great experience. The large matrix display is clear and visible from many angles. How can it be made better? Users of the DGTPi (effectively a DGT3000 with an embedded Raspberry Pi to play as a computer opponent) are quick to point out that the display of the DGT3000 is too limited. It's great as a timer but has limited use when displaying additional information or characters.

Enter a better display...

Such a display needs a new housing...

I also started spending time on the user interface..

Next Generation indeed. I don't see push buttons on top, will it be TouchScreen?

Interesting. No buttons would make it easier to wipe down.

How bad of a hit will battery life experience with the upgraded (color?) display?

Hey, shout out to Wang Hao at Table 17. I hope retirement is treating him well.

@ogouriev @pawnerai thanks for the comments.  Although it is a chess clock form factor, it is not intended to replace or replicate timing functions when playing with someone else over the board.  However, since it uses a smart board it would automatically register each persons move once a piece is moved on the board.

the intent is to have a device that interfaces with the board and allows you to play an online player or a chess engine.  This device would display (and announce) the opponents move and you would move the opponents piece on the board.

I have a video showing more of the touchscreen interface.

I’m developing with AC power, however, it could be powered with a battery pack.  I’m not at the stage where I will test power consumption yet.

Is there a away to purchase the new housing and display together?

This is not a commercial project at the moment.  I'm in the development stage.  Mostly looking for feedback and collaboration on the development.

Ah gotcha, very cool! It certainly looks promising and nice idea. I'm interested

@sumonner what about it interests you.  the more details the better.

It looks to offload the picochess web analysis with improvements. No need for external pc or ipad or different software. Also it's a slick way of displaying the evaluation when training instead of using the clock during coached games. I haven't check but would be nice to import games into pico chess for history game analysis. If playing remote player games are in session I imagine this features would be turned off until the game is over? I've seen this housing before on the Google groups for picochess I liked the idea then also.

@stumonner What is PicoChess exactly? It's an Interface to the DGT board and provides a computer opponent.

You are correct, NG is about consolidating a few functions. It retains the Chess core (i.e. DGT interface and chess engines). Because I focus on the display and housing I can do double duty. No mistakes.... there is an underlying PC... a Raspberry Pi.

I'm glad you appreciate the evaluations. My intent is that this is for training and coaching purposes. I do envision a coach function that provides comments below the timer. I agree, some features should not be available when playing via a server. I have to admit, the setup only allows for a computer player... you did make me think of a remote human player via a chess server (I'm going to add this).

Also part of the training is the ability to force the computer to play a particular line. I have a simple way of overriding the computer's move. When the computer announces it's move there is an option to "swap/change" move. Press it and it clears the move and the human can select whatever move you want the computer to make. Perhaps I should also display the top lines (I think this is particularly useful when still in book openings).

The housing and touch interface makes "importing" games a bit of a challenge. I have a few solutions for this. 1) I use profiles for human players. One of the parameters is an email address. Post game I would email the user their PGN and possibly game analysis. 2) I could store historical games in a local DB or send to a server (lichess?).

With the Introduction of DGT's Pegasus I think there's an opportunity to revise the overall architecture (I recently posted the idea). I think DGT Pegasus may represent a new trend in smart boards... use a companion mobile app and focus on online play. This eliminates the need for PicoChess to interface with the board. Rather, PicoChess interfaces with the companion app using established chess server APIs (lichess.org is well documented). I envision PicoChess could emulate a chess server and if other chess board manufacturers support this similar approach it could make interoperability easier. It probably makes software development easier for DGT if they focus on this form of development with companion applications.

Please keep the ideas flowing. There are many other aspects I am planning for (such as use of remote chess engines for analysis).

But you asked about cost... display is about $100 on Amazon, 3D printed case is about $70 (and I expect this will be double with a higher quality print when I finalise the design), Pi is $35 (I am about to order the new Pi Zero 2 W which is $15), there are some ribbon connector cables probably about $20. I wasn't planning to make a commercial product... if I did commercialise something it would be making basic features free for life, however, I would offer some fee based online services.

Brian, Simplifying playing online opponents would be great, pico to pico. fics gets complicated, not easy. Integration with chess.com but I know that's must be a lot work. I'd be more than happy to pay for a printed case and spring for display. Not sure if any pico image would work, I'm running picov3. If you want a beta user please feel free to pm me. -- good luck and hope to see progress in this space.

@stumonner In the case of DGT Pegasus, the companion app allows the board to be played with a human player via a chess server.  What you're suggesting is duplicating a function in the companion application and it wouldn't be a priority for me.  But I'm going to think of that use case a bit more.

Hey Brian no dgt pegasus. Just picochess on pi integrated to online chess server to play against friends (remote engine but human on the other side). Simplify this I think there would be value. I'm not planning on buying a pegasus. Just looking for a one stop shop with pico. But for your development sounds great to enhance the coaching aspect. I think it's really cool and helpful. I use the coaching option and it is definitely fun.

Love the interaction with the display! Looks very sharp, well done. Let me know if you're taking beta users I'll be happy to upgrade my setup with your devel work!

@stumonner Thank you.  I think this chess gui is a bit too niche.  Im focusing on development of a desktop app with chess DB.

Here is a video demo. It shows the realtime analysis, realtime evaluation, and realtime opening book. Unfortunately, the display was covered when I was setting up players. It does allow two humans to play OTB.

Here's an early concept of the evaluation bar. I also tested with wifi-like bars and a battery gauge. In the end I decided on a simple +/- value at the top that can be toggled on/off.

@agatti1970 I started thinking about this a bit more after @jononomous brought the subject up again. The idea is two people playing OTB (or just doing analysis) might want a continuous analysis of the position on the board so they can do what-if scenarios. This was a use case I imagined but didn't create a demo for.

In this continuous analysis use case, I imagine there would be two potential modes (or views). Evaluation or engine mode. In either mode, I don't think time controls are important so evaluation or engine moves should be the most prominent information.

Evaluation mode: Display centipawn evaluation for the current position. Should this just be +/- a number... or should it be an evaluation bar? I imagine you'd need to select which player is to move, en passant and castling rights if there are no previous moves.

Engine mode: Display top 3 engine moves (possibly even a scrollable list).

I like the idea of displaying move quality (i.e. Brilliant, Great, Best, Mistake, Miss, Blunder) for each move as you play with a corresponding sound for each.

One aspect I really like in chess.com game review is "display moves" when I make a mistake... I can see why it was a mistake. Same when I make the best move... I can "display moves" and I can see why it was a good move.

Hi, my take, just an opinion:

Evaluation mode, if space on the display permits, I would show both numeric evaluation and bar. I would not see the reason why to not show both. One may find quicker to point his eyes to the bar or to the values. I believe you are speaking about the two modes as different display options, and that you can easily switch display mode between the two. I'm saying so, because I can imagine that as soon as I look at the numeric evaluation - say for example +2,55 - I would immediately ask myself "why?". As such, I like the idea of not showing always the engine's lines, not to get an unwanted hint while I'm analyzing myself. Still I want to be able to see the engine thoughts at a very simple click of something. Like an easy toggle function.

Correct. The current view focuses on time controls. I'd remove that data and replace it with evaluations in the main display area. It's not a problem showing evaluation bar and a value.

You could toggle between evaluation and engine mode/view.

Perhaps I'll do a few updated concept screenshots to demonstrate this as you make moves in Realtime Analysis.

Excellent