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Wijk aan Zee 2008

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ericmittens

So Aronian wins it, with Carlson in second. Not a bad tournament for the kid dontcha think?

 

Kramnik and Topalov both had pretty lousy tournaments, Anand did less well than expected....but still ok.

 

 


VLaurenT

I'm very impressed by Carlsen's performance in this tournament. He bounced back after a painful loss against Anand to beat Kramnik with the black pieces.

It shows an amazing blend of talent and fighting spirit.

Anand seems to be the last player in the world who can regularly beat Carlsen. I wouldn't be surprised if Carlsen gets in the top 4 in two years time and competes for the top rank in 3-4 years. 


Loomis
To be clear, Aronian and Carlsen finished equal 1st (8.0/13) and Aronian had better tie-break scores.
TheOldReb
Carlsen shows his class in Corus! He had a little luck but still it looks like he may be a world champion in the not too distant future. I was a bit disappointed with Anand's performance but still he finished above both Topalov and Kramnik. Topalov's prepared bomb against Kramnik was great to behold! However, the silicon beasts have already found the defense that wins and I dont think we will see that line again at the top level. Kramnik again showed his lack of character by offering Carlsen a draw when he realized he was in trouble, sad.
TheOldReb
Loomis wrote: To be clear, Aronian and Carlsen finished equal 1st (8.0/13) and Aronian had better tie-break scores.

Can you tell me where it says Aronian wins on tie break? They played the same people, what kind of  tie break is used in RR events? In any event Carlsen should be the champion since he won 5 games and 3 of those with black. Aronian won only 4. Carlsen also was handicapped with having 7 blacks and 6 whites while Aronian had 7 whites and only 6 blacks.

Loomis
Reb wrote: Loomis wrote: To be clear, Aronian and Carlsen finished equal 1st (8.0/13) and Aronian had better tie-break scores.

Can you tell me where it says Aronian wins on tie break? They played the same people, what kind of  tie break is used in RR events? In any event Carlsen should be the champion since he won 5 games and 3 of those with black. Aronian won only 4. Carlsen also was handicapped with having 7 blacks and 6 whites while Aronian had 7 whites and only 6 blacks.


 If you look at the standings at the official site, Aronian and Carlsen are both listed as first with Aronian listed ahead of Carlsen. This is based on the Sonneborn-Berger tie break system. In this system each player gets a score equal to the final score of all the opponents they defeated plus one half the score of all the opponents they drew. Carlsen scores a 48.5 while Aronian scores a 50.0.

 

I think if you pick a different tie break system you can make Carlsen come out ahead. But there are no tie break systems (that I'm aware of) that consider the color of the pieces played. 


TheOldReb
I see. I think a better tie break system would be to first consider head to head result, if they drew then most wins, if still tied then most wins with black. Such a system would also encourage less draws and reward decisive games more since a win would be worth more than 2 draws in such a system. Ofcourse head to head could complicated when 3 or more are involved in the tie.
skorj
Loomis wrote:

...This is based on the Sonneborn-Berger tie break system. In this system each player gets a score equal to the final score of all the opponents they defeated plus one half the score of all the opponents they drew. Carlsen scores a 48.5 while Aronian scores a 50.0.


I could understand a tie-break system that rewards you in proportion to the strength of the oponents you managed to defeat or draw against if it were a swiss tournament, but in a round-robin I don't see how you get around the fact that everybody plays the same opponents. There's maybe a little rationale in that, if a player started the tournament slow but finished more strongly, beating them near the end would be more difficult than a couple games into the event. Compared to the other criteria for tie-breaks suggested here though, it seems really really weak. It seems a real shame that after achieving his score with more decided games (when there is a real concern that draws at the top level are bad for chess) and with one more game as black than Aronian, Carlsen officially comes in second in the tournament based on a system that is just shy of being completely arbitrary.